03x108 - Shady Staging Part 1

[bunniefuu]

[Judy] So you say she failed to pay you
money for moving furniture?

- Yes, ma'am.
- He did move stuff for you.

- Sure.
- That's not sure.

We're not in a playground.
The answer is yes.

Well, we were promised money constantly.

Listen, the doctor promised
my mother that I'd be 5'6".

- You know how successful that was?
- [announcer] This is Judy Justice.

[theme music]

[announcer] Joseph Kendrew is suing
his former boss, Natacha Sanderson,

- for unpaid wages and business expenses.
- [Kevin] All rise.

[Judy]
Have a seat, please.

Judge, case 3157,
Kendrew versus Sanderson.

Thank you. Ms. Sanderson,
you own a staging business.

Now, I know what that is. I'm not sure
if everybody else knows what that is.

Let me make it simple
and tell me if I'm mistaken.

You have a property that you wanna sell
that is either unfurnished

or has furniture that's not great.
Somebody hires your company.

You have rental places where you go
to fill up that house, office, whatever,

to make it as good-looking as possible

in order to have somebody
either rent it or buy it.

- Yes.
- And you are paid for your service.

It's a staging business.
Did I get that close?

- Yes, Your Honor.
- [Judy] Okay.

How long have you had
the staging business?

- Almost four years.
- Do you have any employees?

I do not have employees.
I have independent contractors.

Well, when you say you have
independent contractors, Ms. Sanderson,

you know, I'm an old person,

and I know why people have independent
contractors rather than having employees,

'cause that means they can pay 'em
in cash, they can pay 'em in wampum,

they can pay 'em in lira,
they can pay 'em in whatever.

Sometimes they 1099 them
and sometimes they don't.

These people who are independent
contractors, what do they do for you?

- Whenever we get hired for a job, we... I...
- Who's we?

[Natacha] My company. Whenever my
company is contracted for a job...

- [Judy] And you... just a second.
- Mhm.

- Your company according to you?
- Yes.

- Period.
- [Natacha] Mhm.

So whenever you get hired to do a job

and you protect yourself
by being incorporated.

- I assume you are incorporated.
- Yes.

I know what staging companies do.

What I wanna know is, what your
independent contractors do for you.

They move furniture for me.
They're glorified movers.

Are they companies
or are they individuals?

Sometimes companies,
sometimes individuals that we hire.

Who's the we?

- Me.
- [Judy] That you hire.

Sometimes individuals.

You see this gentleman over here,
sitting over here in the black shirt?

- [Natacha] I do.
- [Judy] Do you know him?

- [Natacha] I do.
- [Judy] Who is he?

[Natacha]
That's Justin Bakich.

- [Judy] And what does Justin do for you?
- Justin no longer works with me.

- What did he do for you?
- He was an independent contractor

- that moved furniture...
- [Judy] Just a second. Just a second.

- He was an independent contractor.
- Mhm.

Did he have a company?

- Look at me. Did he have a company?
- No, not to my knowledge.

- How did you pay him?
- My company paid him via Venmo or PayPal...

- [Judy] In cash? In...
- ...or... Cash App.

In cash, not a check?

Not a check, but sources
that can be tracked by tax purposes.

[Judy]
Very good.

And since he did not have a company
and worked for you, did you 1099 him?

- I attempted to...
- [Judy] Just a sec.

Did you 1099 him or did you not 1099 him?

I did not.

And how many years or months
did you do moving for the defendant?

I started in... end of...
or May... end of May. I'm sorry.

[Judy] I like when people stand up
when they talk to me.

- It makes me more comfortable.
- Yeah, me too.

I started, like, the end of May...

- [Judy] Of what year?
- ...end of May of 2023

and then... was done at the end of November.

- How much were you paid?
- $25 an hour.

- Venmo or...
- [Justin] Yeah.

However she could pay me.
Like, it would be sporadic.

Now, the time has long passed for 1099s.
Did you receive a 1099 from Ms. Sanderson?

No.

And how much money did she pay you
in total from May through November?

Like I said, sporadic
'cause I would send her my hours

and... sometimes she would send me,
like, two Cash Apps of $500 each

or a Cash App of, you know,
maybe 1000, something like that,

or even smaller amounts.
So, like, probably total, I don't know...

probably around maybe 2,000
to 3,000, maybe.

- Did she have anyone else moving for her?
- Yes, Joe.

Other than him.

She did, sometimes, have a couple that
would work for her. I never met them.

- Did they still do work for you?
- [Natacha] He does.

[Judy]
What does he do?

He's an independent contractor.
He does moving.

And I assume you paid him the same way

- as you paid this gentleman?
- Yes.

- Did you 1099 them?
- Yes.

How much did you say
they earned last year?

One earned, I think $9,500 and the other
one earned, I think $4,500, thereabouts.

- I'd have to go back and look.
- Did you 1099 anyone else?

I attempted to contact Justin
and he did not return any phone calls,

emails, or messages.

Well, when you hired him,
you're supposed to get his information,

Social Security Number,
or address, et cetera.

- Yes. He was collecting unemployment.
- [theme music]

Justin was working for her not a lot,
maybe he earned $2,000 or $3,000.

- That is what you told me, right?
- I worked a lot more than that.

- Well, then, that makes you an idiot.
- [courtroom laughs]

You wanna fess up to being an idiot?

[theme music]

[announcer] Joseph Kendrew is accusing
his former boss, Natacha Sanderson,

of owing for unpaid wages
and business expenses.

Now, did you 1099 anyone else?

[Natacha] I attempted to contact Justin
and he did not return any phone calls,

emails, or messages.

Well, when you hired him,
you're supposed to get his information,

Social Security Number,
address, et cetera.

Yes. He was collecting unemployment.

So he... was working for me
while collecting unemployment.

- [Judy] And you?
- No, I wasn't.

- [Judy] I... just a sec.
- Okay.

- I'm just asking her.
- [Justin, indistinct]

- That's something that you knew?
- Yes.

[Judy] Okay. And that's the reason
why you didn't 1099 him?

No, I did attempt to 1099 him.
But I didn't.

[Judy] Well, why would you attempt
to 1099 him, Ms. Sanderson?

I haven't started on you yet.

- [Natacha] I didn't have his Social...
- Why would you attempt to 1099 him

if you already knew
that he was collecting unemployment

and one of the conditions
of his employment

was he's gonna get paid in cash
unreported?

I mean, that was the agreement.
You're a smart gal.

I can tell. You're a business person, so
you're a smart gal. You understood that?

- Okey-dokey. Good. Now, Mr. Kendrew?
- Yes. Yes ma'am. Your Honor.

- [Judy] How old are you?
- Thirty-nine years old.

- [Judy] What do you do for a living?
- A financial consultant.

What training do you have
to be a financial consultant?

I have a CIMA analyst designation.

- I work...
- [Judy] A what?

- I...
- Slowly.

Slowly because Sarah doesn't
take shorthand.

- [Joseph] Yeah.
- She's a professional.

She's a lawyer. Lawyers don't
know how to do important things

like take shorthand or type
or anything else like that,

so don't try to confuse Sarah.
That would be hard for you.

- You have a what in the who?
- [courtroom laughs]

[Joseph]
Your Honor, I went to college for four...

- [Judy] You went to college?
- Yes, ma'am.

- That was a long time ago.
- That was a very long time ago.

- [Judy] Yes. And what was your major?
- [Joseph] Finance.

- [Judy] Did you graduate?
- Yes, ma'am.

[Judy]
Okay. And so you have a degree?

- [Joseph] Yes, ma'am.
- A bachelor's degree

- with a major in finance?
- Yes, ma'am.

- Other than that?
- Some secondary education...

- Like what?
- [Joseph] It is a... analyst designation.

- [Judy] For whom?
- I started at Merrill Lynch

and worked on Wall Street for ten years

- and since then...
- Shh. Just a second.

Merrill Lynch for ten years.
Well, that's a start.

How did you end up moving furniture?

- [chuckles] Well, I...
- [Judy] Shh.

Just think about what you're gonna
say to me now. You have family?

- Do you have family?
- No, ma'am.

- [Judy] Okay. So you have friends?
- Yes.

Okay. So think of what
you're gonna say to me.

You worked for Merrill Lynch for
ten years... you can sit. As an analyst?

- Yeah.
- And then what?

[stammers] ...and I moved to St. Pete's
approximately two years ago.

- And...
- [Judy] From where?

From Cleveland, Ohio.

- And...
- Why?

I was ready for a new start.

COVID had just happened and I was living
in a residential neighborhood.

St. Petersburg offered a lot of things
that Cleveland didn't,

and I was ready for a new beginning.

- You mean St. Petersburg, Florida?
- Yes, ma'am.

[Judy]
A lot of things, including better weather?

Yes, ma'am.

- Did you have a job there when you moved?
- No.

- Who did you move in with?
- I lived by myself.

Living off savings, I assume?

Some savings and I did some
independent financial consulting

for a company
that was located in Cincinnati.

How did you get into
furniture moving and staging?

I had met the gentleman Justin Bakich
and there was another gentleman

who was also moving furniture
for Natacha that wasn't mentioned.

- You know that person?
- Yes.

Yeah. Did he move furniture for you?

- Twice or three times, maybe.
- Well, then, the answer is yes.

- How did you pay him?
- Same way.

- Venmo, Cash App, PayPal.
- Go ahead.

[Joseph] I met these gentlemen
and I... as I mentioned, I'm single,

and they had some... they had an
opportunity, weekends of working part-time

and I just said, I'm gonna do this
as an extra source of income,

- to have good habits.
- [Judy] Mhm.

And to take advantage of the opportunity
to start working with them.

It doesn't tell me how you met her.
That tells me how you met him.

Justin was working for her. He called
me up, said that he had an opportunity.

Justin was working for her not a lot,
according to Justin.

According to Justin,
he was working for her a little bit,

maybe he earned $2,000 or $3,000.
That is what you told me, right?

So he wasn't working.

- That's what he was paid.
- [Judy] Just a sec.

That's what I was... you said
"what I was paid," I was paid.

- I worked a lot more than that.
- Well, then, that makes you an idiot.

[courtroom laughs]

[Judy]
You wanna fess up to being an idiot?

No.

- It's a lot more complicated than that...
- [Judy] He...

- ...but yes.
- I think that you are.

- I heard you, so you're not an idiot.
- [Justin] Right.

And unless there's some
other favors going on around here,

- you worked for $2,000 or $3,000.
- Well, we were promised money constantly.

[Judy] Listen, the doctor promised
my mother that I'd be 5'6".

You know how successful that was?

And you don't look like the kind of man
that works off promises.

- Put your hand down, I don't need you.
- [laughs]

You're suing her for $8,000.
You say she failed to pay you money

that you actually worked for,
moving furniture.

[Joseph]
Yes, ma'am.

Moving furniture. So you actually
worked a lot more than he did,

because he only worked $2,000,
$3,000 worth.

You moved stuff for her
and paid bills for her over $8,000.

That's what you said right here.

- Yes, Your Honor.
- [Judy] Okay.

I'm gonna ask you a couple of questions.
I better get an honest answer from you

'cause you understand this will not
be good for you if you don't.

- Absolutely.
- He did move stuff for you?

- Yes.
- [Judy] Yes.

And he moved for you,
you know, this other person,

whoever he was that
only worked a little bit,

he moved things for you at the same time
that Justin moved things for you,

- or at different times?
- Different times.

- And how would you reach him?
- Text messages.

- [Judy] Do you have some?
- I do.

[Judy]
I'd like to take a look at them.

This is, "I'm at Coolidge.

Pics are in four minutes
then I need to go home and sleep

or at least shower
before we unload. Brandon."

- Who wrote that?
- That was likely me.

- [Judy] Hmm?
- That was likely me.

[sighs] "I need to go home and sleep or at
least shower before we unload. Brandon."

- Now that you're sending to him?
- Mhm.

- [Judy] Okay. Uh-huh. Is that a yes?
- Yes.

[theme music]

[Judy] I mean, I'm a simple girl.
You know, I'm a country girl. Simple.

But if you, who look like
a big strong strapping guy,

who gets a chance to workout
and be in the sun,

and your buddy, who you met, said, "Come
with me. We're gonna move furniture,"

and he only worked with you
and you took at most $3,000.

I'm trying to figure out
where the $8,000 comes from.

[theme music]

[announcer] Joseph Kendrew is accusing
his former boss, Natacha Sanderson,

of owing for unpaid wages
and business expenses.

[Judy]
Okay. "I need to go home and sleep

or at least shower
before we unload. Brandon."

- Now that you're sending to him?
- [Natacha] Mhm.

- [Judy] Okay. Uh-huh. Is that a yes?
- Yes.

And he says, "You need sleep. I'm
searching for help to unload the truck."

- And then you send him a number.
- Yes.

"I just texted her." And then you write
an address. He says, "Got it."

And then you say to him, "Don't forget
the stuff in the garage, please."

There's a warehouse in... and then there's
a place, Brandon... So clearly, in July,

- he's doing things for you.
- Yes.

- [Judy] Do you pay him?
- [Natacha] Yes.

- How much?
- I believe that's also there with you.

- [Judy] Okay.
- [Natacha] All the payments are there.

[Judy] Well, let's see.
"Also, furnishing, nothing broke.

I don't... sending out those invoices,
collect that money.

Here's my hours for the last month
to yesterday, 87.5 hours."

And then you say, "Break them
down for me, please." Right?

And he does, he breaks them
down for you. You get 91 hours.

"Not included are the hours calling,
reaching out to realtors, social media.

I do that on my owe." And then
you sent him $1,800, is that right?

- Correct.
- You don't tell me in your complaint

- that she sent you $1,800.
- [Justin] That's me, Your Honor.

She... she's... I would love a 1099 for that,
Your Honor, 'cause I never got that money.

- Not to me.
- [Justin] Your Honor, that's me.

She's texting me that.

- See, I worked as many hours as...
- Shh.

- Just a sec.
- [Justin] Oh, sorry. But yeah.

- That's not...
- It's just... stand up.

- Are these texts to you?
- That... those are my text messages.

- Yeah. So...
- These are your text messages?

[Justin] So all the hours he worked,
I was working with him the same time,

'cause I was driving the truck every time.
So all the hours he worked, I worked.

She would pay me sparingly
because I didn't have any other, like...

you know, I had some harshness
with my job before.

- [Judy] Just a second.
- [Justin] Sorry.

So I needed to get paid for rent
and stuff like that.

Listen, you said that
she paid you for your work...

- Yes.
- [Judy] ...$2,000 to $3,000?

- I...
- [Judy] Just a second.

- Yeah.
- That's what you say to me.

You don't look like a foolish man.
You're not suing her for any more money.

- Nope.
- [Judy] Right.

Your friend who you say worked with you,

- he... your friend, that's him...
- [Justin] Mhm.

- [Judy] ...worked with you.
- Mhm.

[Judy] That's what he did.
He was on the truck with you?

- Yes.
- He's suing her for $8,000.

- Yes. He didn't get paid a cent.
- Well, just a minute.

But you only got paid 2,000 to 3,000
and you said he worked with you.

He's suing her for 8,000.

Well, so you... 2,000 or 3,000...
so all my... I had the same hours as him.

- We...
- [Judy] Just a second.

- [Justin] Okay... [indistinct] hours...
- I'm talking about what you...

- [Justin] Yeah.
- [Judy] ...told me.

- Mhm.
- [Judy] You told me

- that you made between $2,000 and $3,000.
- I... yeah.

[Judy] And... that's what you told me.
You made between $2,000 and $3,000.

That was his job, you drove,
he rode on the truck with you.

- Mhm.
- As far as you know,

did he ride on a truck with anyone else?

- No.
- So that at most...

- Just pay attention to me.
- [Justin] Mhm.

[Judy] So that at most, if she paid you
$2,000 to $3,000 by the hour,

she would owe him $2,000 to $3,000
for working with you.

Don't anyone else speak but you.

- Okay.
- I mean, I'm a simple girl,

you know, I'm a country girl. Simple.

But if you, who look like
a big strong strapping guy

who gets a chance to workout
and be in the sun,

accepted $2,000 to $3,000
for the work that you did,

and your buddy, who you met, said, "Come
with me. We're gonna move furniture,"

and he only worked with you,
and you took at most $3,000,

I'm trying to figure out
where the $8,000 comes from.

Very simple.
Well, so, I would always text her,

"I need the money for rent,"
'cause I needed it.

So she would send me, like I said,
she was Cash App me

a couple Cash Apps of 500, 500, 200,
something like that so I could pay rent.

She would not Cash App him. Now,
he actually put money into the business.

He would pay some people,
do stuff like that.

Oh, well, I have to see that.

- Just a second.
- Yeah, we have that. He actually...

- Okay.
- [Justin] He actually, one time,

paid me 1,000 for the work I did.

I thought it was from her, but it was
actually his own pocket he paid me.

- He came...
- Well, then, he's... then, he's ridiculous.

- [Justin] He's a good friend.
- Just a second.

He's not a good friend of hers.
He just met her.

- No. A friend of mine.
- He just met her.

And if you did work
for which you didn't get paid,

then I'm sorry, sir,
that makes you an idiot.

Unless there's something else that's
going on here that I don't understand,

- [Judy] which is all very possible
- [Justin] Well...

because if I wasn't getting paid,
I wouldn't work anymore.

Yeah, I understand where you're
coming from, but we were promised a lot.

Like, we were promised one that... one house
had a lien on it for, like, 15,000.

So money was gonna come in.
That never happened.

- We...
- And just continued to work?

- You worked...
- And we did a Airbnb,

him and I together,
and we didn't get paid for that.

I mean, we heard that she was paying
these other two, couple, 2,500,

and we got mad and we left one of sites.

We were mad
'cause we weren't getting paid.

- Good idea.
- [Justin] Mhm.

So we stopped... that's why we stopped
working, 'cause we weren't getting paid.

- [Judy] Great. Okay. Now, you can sit.
- [Justin] Thank you.

[Judy]
So, the next part of your claim,

other than for these hours
that you didn't get paid,

and by the way, you have proof that
you sent him this money and not Justin?

Do you have proof that you sent
the plaintiff this money through Cash App

- and not... your name is Justin, right?
- Yes.

- [Judy] Not Justin?
- No, I sent to Justin, not to Joseph.

- [Judy] You sent it to Justin?
- [Natacha] Yes.

Well, then,
what did you show this to me for?

'Cause it shows where Justin
brought Joseph to work for the first time,

not me asking for anybody to come to work,
it was... Justin was to come to work,

- and he brought his friend to work.
- [Judy] And?

[Natacha] I wasn't there. I went home
to take a shower and go to bed.

[Judy] How many times
did he bring his friend to work?

- Several.
- [Judy] Several.

You have any communications
with the plaintiff by text message?

Is he gonna be able to show me
any text messages from you?

Sure. There ended up
being a group message.

Shh. Right. So then you knew
he was working with him on your behalf.

- Sure.
- [Judy] That's not sure.

We're not in a playground.
The answer is yes.

- Yes.
- [Judy] The answer is yes.

And it would be fair to say,
based upon this that you showed me,

that has nothing to do with the plaintiff,
that you paid him nothing.

Well, he was helping Justin.

- I never...
- Excuse me?

- [chuckles] Sorry.
- [Judy] That's a question.

Would it be a fair statement
that you paid the plaintiff nothing?

Yes, correct. I didn't hire him.

[chuckles]
Do you know that I don't believe you?

[theme music]

[announcer] Are you a victim
of an as*ault?

[theme music]